Family Law: Child Placement - Ginger Murray

Sly- Ginger Murray from Lawton and Cates joins us today. Interestingly enough there’s a case in the news having to do with Michael Jackson and his kids and custody, and you deal with this all the time at Lawton and Cates.

Ginger- Yes, good morning Sly. I expected that Michael Jackson might come up in my spot about custody and placement today so I’m ready to go.

Sly- Divorce and custody cases run rampant right? They’re not all the same.

Ginger- Right. We handle the divorces and post judgment and paternities where there is a child without a marriage. One of the reasons why I left being a court commissioner and preceding over those cases in the north woods is because of all of the other exciting areas of family law such as surrogacy, adoption, artificial insemination, all of the things that Michael Jackson’s kids have to do with. I remember last time I was here we were talking about divorces and trying to think of what Hollywood stars are going through a divorce at the time. So I thought that you might want to talk about Michael Jackson.

Sly- Alright in a case like Michael Jackson’s, where his will states that his mother gets custody of those kids and the woman that is either the surrogate mother or the biological mother has taken money to relinquish the rights to those kids, does that make it pretty clean cut?

Ginger- I don’t think that there is anything about the custody and placement of Michael Jackson’s kids that is clean cut. What I can tell you is that in Wisconsin if there is a will that tell what the parents’ desired, certainly that will be considered. Grandparents’ rights are not what they used to be. There’s a Supreme Court case that said that the wishes of the biological parents will override the grandparents. A third party petition, so someone other than mother or father, in Wisconsin if you have assumed the role similar to that of a parent, you have the right to petition for visitation of the child. I handle those cases.

Sly- Alright Ginger Murray with Lawton and Cates with us. What’s your phone number?

Ginger- 282-6200

Sly- Alright. A lot of times parents can figure this out ahead of time and it makes it a lot easier. But a lot of times it’s very difficult. You can actually set a term for a while, for five years. What do they call that where they set something for a while, and then we’ll see how this works?

Ginger- Here’s how it works, Sly, if parents can come to an agreement then that’s fantastic, the courts are more likely than not to adopt it as long as the court believes that it’s in the child’s best interest. You can do sort of the staggered placement that you’re talking about. It’s especially useful in paternity cases where mom and dad didn’t have a relationship. Dad might just now be finding out that he has the child. So sometimes we see a one-year-old and dad didn’t even know he had a child. There are some cases where there is a four-year-old and we’re just learning who the father is. Then the court commissioner or the judge will say because the only parent that this child has known is the mother, we’re going to go through an introduction to the father. For the first six weeks we’re going to have placement supervised by mom, the only parent the child knows, but we’re going to integrate dad. We’re going to have mom introduce the child to dad and it’s going to be a slow process. After this child becomes acquainted with dad we’re going to have mom and dad meet in a public place or at dad’s house so that the child can get used to the new environment. Eventually dad can have a couple of hours unsupervised and then we’ll work our way down the road. Those are usually under temporary orders. Then once you get to a final order, that’s very locked in and it’s very difficult to modify a final order within the first two years after that order. The courts just want a peace keeping time frame for that child to let this child just be. You are really not going to have much of an opportunity to modify unless you can prove that the child is physically or emotionally harmed by the current placement schedule.

Sly- Are more fathers getting custody than before?

Ginger- If you mean before being ten years ago, I would say yes. But let me be clear, custody and placement are two different things. Custody means who makes the major decisions. In Wisconsin it is presumed that it is in the child’s best interest for both mom and dad to work together to make those major decisions. Placement is where the child resides. And again it is presumed that absent some physical abuse, some drug or alcohol abuse it’s in the child’s best interest to maximize time with both parents. So you’re not seeing the every other weekend with the Wednesday. You are seeing much more creative placement schedules.

Sly- Is Katherine Jackson’s age a strike against her?

Ginger- It would definitely be considered in my opinion. I mean we do have cases where guardianships are requested. Guardianship is granting another fit and capable person legal rights to take care of a child. When you look at the factors that are in the statute, the ability to take care of the child is certainly one of them. They’re going to be looking at okay these children are teenagers now, how is Katherine going to be able to provide for the littlest one ten years from now or eight years from now? That is something that I believe the court would consider. Likewise for Diana Ross, but I’m not really clear where that all comes in. I mean I googled this morning but she hasn’t been around these kids recently.

Sly- Once Katherine Jackson gets custody of the children, can she change who would get custody if something happened to her even though Diana Ross is in the will? Once she gets custody.

Ginger- I think that’s something that the lawyers will want to clarify while they’re in court now. Is this a done deal? Is this Katherine and that’s it? I looked up on Debbie Row’s information and it was suggested that she terminated parental rights but it wasn’t clear to me that she terminated parental rights. It wasn’t clear if it was her egg, it wasn’t clear if it was Michael Jackson’s genetic material.

Sly- There is nothing clear here. We’re out of time but give me your phone number one more time.

Ginger- Certainly. 282-6200 and we have a website www.lawtoncates.com.