Current Wisconsin Tenant Landlord Rules - Dixon Gahnz

Sly- We have Dixon Gahnz here from Lawton and Cates. Good morning Dixon.

Dixon- Good morning Sly, how are you doing?

Sly- What’s your phone number over at Lawton and Cates?

Dixon- 608-282-6200

Sly- Alright, renting. Renting has always been tumultuous in Madison, Wisconsin because there are a lot of people that rent in Madison that are first time renters. Rent is fairly high in Madison and we have a pretty tough market, believe it or not, to find an apartment. So Madison had laws that protected renters that went beyond what some of the state laws were. What’s going on with that?

Dixon- Well, that’s changed.

Sly- Really?

Dixon- Really, it has.

Sly- Has it changed in favor of the renters?

Dixon- No surprisingly.

Sly- It hasn’t?

Dixon- It has not. What the legislature did at the end of 2011, in the past couple weeks is they passed a Senate bill 107 which preempts local ordinances or local rules with respect to renting and landlord-tenant relations.

Sly- In other words, they’ve wiped local democracy out of the equation.

Dixon- They have. You were talking a little bit earlier about headlines we’d like to see for 2012, just once I’d like to see state legislature protects consumer rights.

Sly- Oh they haven’t been so good at that this year.

Dixon- Well, hopefully 2012 will be different. The new law essentially, well not essentially, it does, changes the law for Madison renters which is significant when you realize that Madison has over 50% of its residents rent. And then you have the large student population which affects thousands of people and not just the renters but their parents. I have a freshman in college.

Sly- You’re too young to have a freshman in college.

Dixon- No, I’m not. But she is going to be out in the renting market next year and it’s really unfortunate from the standpoint that Madison for years and decades had put together a comprehensive local solution to a local problem. And now the state’s come in and said no and it has some real impact in terms of what you’re looking at, in terms of minimum income requirements and—

Sly- Criminal background?

Dixon- Not even criminal background, arrest background.

Sly- Arrest background.

Dixon- You used to not be able to look at those things and now you can say well jeez you know Stevie was picked up for—

Sly- Vicki McKenna was arrested for striking a police officer.

Dixon- If she was renting under the new law, that could be taken into account as to whether or not to rent to that person.

Sly- Security deposits.

Dixon- Security deposits had been limited. They had been limited to one month or less. Now there is no limit so it could be a first, last, and a security deposit. So rather than paying $600 plus your first month’s rent you could have to pay $1800 on a $600 apartment.

Sly- Why did they change these rules? Were landlords victims?

Dixon- The reasoning or the rationale behind it were that the rules needed to be uniform and the market would take care of things and that this was needed to level the playing field and from my standpoint when you’re a renter you’re either a young person renting for the first time, you’re not particularly savvy or a sophisticated consumer. One of the things in the bill that I thought was particularly interesting was the old check-in check-out sheets. Anyone that’s rented an apartment has probably had that sheet to go through and those renters who are wise because they have been burned go through the apartment carefully and they go room to room to see all the defects and all the things that are messed up. In the new law, the landlord is not even required to give you a check-in sheet. You can go through on your own and mark down all the deficiencies in the apartment.

Sly- So in other words, it’s going to be much easier for a landlord to take things out of that larger security deposit that you’re putting down. So this is kind of a double whammy.

Dixon- Oh it’s more than a double whammy. Let’s kind of walk through that.

Sly- A triple whammy!

Dixon- I’m going to go with quadruple. Four times the whammy.

Sly- Holy smokes!

Dixon- First Madison used to have a penalty up to three times the security deposit for landlords. Second after 21 days, if the landlord hadn’t returned the security deposit it automatically became due and owing in total and you would have to go to the court to get it. It used to be that if you had to take a landlord to court and if you could find a lawyer to take that case, the lawyer could potentially get his or her legal fees paid. Now thanks to the Robin Vos sponsored attorney’s fee cap, you’re going to be limited in the amount of attorney’s fees.

Sly- Oh so this is very similar to what they did to the lemon law. What they did with going after auto dealers.

Dixon- Yes.

Sly- Which is also Robin Vos legislation, might I add.

Dixon-It was but the Robin Vos aspect of the legislation was really tied to his own landlord tenant problem in Whitewater where he had been sued and had a $20,000 plus attorney’s fees based on his ownership of an apartment building.

Sly- Isn’t that something? And of course the case with the auto dealer was a constituent, a contributor of his from Berlin.

Dixon- That is correct.

Sly- From Chevrolet. Dixon Gahnz with us from Lawton and Cates. Your website?

Dixon- www.lawtoncates.com

Sly- Phone number?

Dixon- 282-6200

Sly- Alright. Does it even pay to try to get help with a dispute with a landlord anymore? Is there any protection left?

Dixon- Well there are a couple things. One of them is that Madison has a very strong tenant resource center that is an excellent resource for renters. And the small claims system is still there in terms of your ability to go and sue for your rights. The small claims system is set up for individuals to go without legal representation and still have a fighting chance because the rules of evidence don’t apply as strictly and it’s not as formal as big claims court.

Sly- Any tips on what people should do now that they don’t have the protection of the law? Do they need to think ahead further so they don’t get caught in a bind and end up with the landlord strong arming them? Do you have to think further ahead?

Dixon- Well there’s a couple things. One is that in Madison there is a drive to get Madison landlords to sign a pledge that they will abide by the old rules. So I would look for landlords that have signed that pledge. Second be careful, go through with a video camera, make sure that you document the condition of the apartment when you move in.

Sly- Can that be legally binding?

Dixon- Not unless it is written into the lease. I mean it’s a handshake deal.

Sly- So if you go and take a picture, so in other words you don’t have to accept the keys until the apartment is to your liking, right?

Dixon- Correct. That’s true. But what I’m saying is for instance if there’s a big stain in the carpet when you move in you don’t want to have to pay for that big stain so document it.  Even if they don’t offer you a check in sheet, make sure you go through the apartment.

Sly- Right and you can make them fix it before you accept the terms of the lease?

Dixon- Sure.

Sly- So you have to be far more proactive?

Dixon- Absolutely and if you do have a problem you don’t have nearly as many remedies.

Sly- What’s an area you can still help as a lawyer?

Dixon- Well there are circumstances where you’re being discriminated against, those rules still apply. And within the clinicals at the law schools there are still, at least lawyers in training, who are going to help. And we’ll certainly talk to people who have landlord tenant issues. It’s just going to be a whole lot more difficult for us to take those cases on. So we come on the radio and talk to folks and at least try and tell them what their rights and responsibilities are.

Sly- Have you ever seen a time period where consumers and sometimes through attorneys, where we’ve had a more anti-consumer legislature?

Dixon- I have not. It’s every time you turn around, there’s something else that is passed that makes it harder for the working men and women to just go through their day.

Sly- They say that’s going to create jobs.

Dixon- I don’t see it.

Sly- Dixon Gahnz, Lawton and Cates, your phone number one more time?

Dixon- 608-282-6200